believer in nuclear power. but i think it's worth pointing out -- >> is also goe. but his concern is recently he whilve mit rl laor st at o future. i think he really worries that we are-- in a bureaucratic way if you're at game for a documentary there n o of ashyomment b thi he lcocet ad oaso te of camityere. but it's worth pointing out is that it's kind of an amazing story was happening in the entireworld. thmepoifnurxample, wihhas we t li,20%as the united states are eliminating within the next 10 years and immediately took off line plans which are older than

30 years. dien ietire headi in rmisllmpnt usey ae mostly it came to california because germany is such an aggressi program. nowhere else in the world terms of commitment towards renewables. it is for mentioning just a couple weeks a thar dan germany the entire nation was powered by solar power. so of course there's reliability issues a solar powered. but it still shows they i ses th abrecico how e r. ther also playing $12 billion into the ectricity grid to improve their ability to have more reliable solar wind biomass. it's not jt a simple wrd, ei rt elces

of these plants, where all of a sudden we're living in a world where we totally dependent upon gas and coal, i don't think the evidence actually bears that out. >> marv ertel, grea eie aneyratca uc do power? >> now, and to be honest, it's partially correct. beforeermany decided to stop the nuclearprogam,er decided totie tora e plt aod ha pre-fukushima. they impose tremendous tax on utilities to do that. they were going to generate billions of euros in taxes and that's why they were going to do it. it was politiclly not actyeptive within h elarosveig imatan immediately made this may be a good decision for germany, the ceainly a political decision on what they do with nuclear.

they buy nuclear electricity from the french they ma ha gey. osuda 's kfr u. fo solar to do it there and i'm a fan of solar. germany is not the best place. if they don't spend the 12 billion, they won't be able too it. renewables oug to be parof thdotte em. neectricity all the time. that's one of the things that gets lost in the debate. there's no we should ever operate where it should be allowed to continue operating. keep in mind how unsafe rscfyreno ecit bin leno try world. they are not living a lifestyle in california, new york or even south carolina. we need to keep in mind whatyou have nuclear pants, renewables d evythilsto pde try. are there gas fire jim boyd and

joe rubén and greg dalton. let's come back to the unied tove fukushima. >> there's a lot of good lessons coming out of fukushima, but there's three really big important things that have come out. i'not dismissing the other things, but the three big things excerpt for the appropriate assays in the plant layout reflects the designbasis. if you have a small near flood condition, don't put diesels another switchgear in the mendatghr ou lthem. if you get it right, do the layout right. even if he did all of that right, you have to be prepared for someing that could take away all of your power, ac power because th's what she used to get water into e ar

ere fis msuoe back. the third thing is make sure you consider how many units are at the site. the industry and the nrc. the nrc has to demand for information of everything to dsopowcdfogwu hi and i think they believe to the smartest thing we can do to deal with the ac power has actually have a flexible concept wherewe hve is alrnatwafgots se. teto p n en we have offsite capabilities to calm and enhance that over time for the long-term. >> diesel generators on trucks to bring power and a bigi whe atsob pmont. diesel driven hookups into the vessel in other places that we

know we can get to that if we couldn't get a one-way become in another way. we learned this after 9/11. after 9/11 o ofh orn s heelaad land? what was different was the way we make everything pretty rigid. to get the water for yor. he didn't know where the plane fuouo.hit heln ve e icu towa flexible. we basically did that from the standpoint of dealing with the aircraft. but we didn't do it as robustly looking at other aspects, nor did we do the king of multiple units. so actiotaken a le led from 9/1an to bet explaining it dramatically. twice that's the greatest immediate benefit from a safety standpoint. >> how much of this disparity happening today versus what we'll do some point when they get around to

ar order.pm the industry committed at the end of launch to have ordered all the equipment they think they'll need for what we call this approach. our goal is to have been installed by the end of the year anhave it on ie brmoquntote site. i do want to downplay the other set the nrc has us doing this for us what counts for seismic and flooding. and also to jim's point, the nrc is askg everybody to do a pre-aluaon othei ie rinos o this. i would atually, jim not propose and be thought of license renal. but we need is a process that we don't have come to the nrc doesn't have. when you get ne noatn nga o seismic hazard next to my nuclear plant i have to worry about the chemical plant having

an accident and affecting the nuclear plant. how do i do with the new information? how do i determinth stlia?ate 's psst he gh process. the wait 10 years for license renewal. you need to do in real time when the information becomes available. >> jamsubsets, california has a plan with qutions aoew ovs. nee f ewae yet. so, where should nuclear seismic issues beconsidered? mat sou, i certainly agree ith id ahee, nothing was happening there. you can't go another 10 or 20 years without looking at that subject. right now, diablo canyon, which more and more fault or found offsre is otrug

ocoftiison unsteady. diablo canyon filed 14 years i had at the expiratn dateof their license, which we thought s a rusho ugena an were not anti-nuclear. we're just a little concerned about behavior of some people. so you've got to remember, i used analogies of three liquor stores all the time. yove gotechnog han bein than mothr nada d em. no gets old. we've been waiting for years for a new type elegy. things were done on weather. you've got human teams to design d operate tse facilities. make a hns enhetus ll edblrout entire lifetime in terms of potential. when you put those three things together, you better be darn sure you've covered every single base that night he this

discussion shows weve n been ogo cozihis e4, the payoff has incredible risk. if you're going to use nuclear, you beer make t so foolproof that youake the decision to proceed with it. thathanolt asro this day. for the nation embarked on nuclear power, the promise was to come up with a facility or facilities to house the aiaves. at doesn't exist to th day with that.ee i li the other thing is cost. the cost of the plants is tremendous in so you have to do cost amortization. does that really give you cheap power? dot providenvironmental ec tyon

that all has tobe analyzed all at once and we need a better system. >> marv fertel, johbreaux is retired ceo of exxon that serves customers in pennsylvania and illinois and is the larges operf ee ann country. i'd like to read you a quote from john road. live me state unequivocay that i've never met a nuclear plant i did mike. having said that, let me also state uneqvocally that it would still make a senseo. m narn wl make better results is nuclear. just is an economic and it's not economic within a foreseeable timeframe. is john breaux wrong? >>e is bre. hn wotht tac 'rg plants in the northeast, two in south carolina, two in georgia and the regulated market. their public utility commission then governor has decided that natural gas is very cheap w

and that's what john is referring t t thdntwn o yenoowwhhece will go, so they want a diversified portfolio. therefore shall he not a merchant market. >> explain what that means. >> a merge >> aerger market andave coy a ha ar nter the market, competing with other sources. >> if i'm in a regulated market they set arate for what u.s.a. residential customer comrcial customer would payand h ver le o twa he of electricity from that plant is. so they can take a long-te view. a nuclear plant is a 60 year asset. they can say is very goo stability over 60 years and i iihhv - a diversified portfoo. >>giy year period

>> let's talk about that, too. 40 years in the atomic energy act. hfoe tg iner 4arme from. the best two answers i've heard is that what they used to amortize investments over him the second-best answer is that as with the federal communications commission used deedstor ihat narnt years. as i said earlier, all the mong parts are in a program, predictive, preventive. other stuff you look at, you lbee 'sw long it a er is in the nrc says you've got the license. but nothing is designed to fail. i'm going to leave in a little while to get on a 40 year airplane and i certainlyope it's at the same mantance

progm th i kehdi it that. >> well, i wish it's going to say, i'm going to go back to the interaction of all the republicans of mother nature, human beings andtcny. the songs, the materials problem brought on by design or material failures in a 2-year-d generator -- thanemo be veryant near san good. but i am aware because of my responsibility that for years we have sety culture problems and not plant. waeen oeetletter he ever wrot ltint . fudeoplr ta come at things not being done, and things happening and complacency sentencing.

i agree with mars. you've got to do it righ. he's got todo a break constantly impact regator ecn aaesm opo ig nt. brighten up the system provides for that and everybody gets it when mother nature may provide and probably undersized everything and now we have worries about earthquakes yoo haodoight.isnd wthve some of the old plants are on the coast. you need to worry about seismic warnings that were considered. >> job rubin. >> things go n. re tycientistcame out witha congho >> near misses, things that went wrong at the plant, diedthe day feel have been udr

thwe nbfs hbet time. i just want to point out a couple ofthings. one message is sent to get across because i don't think it's coming across on the stage what a dramatic story that's going on in the country in trms of a el l r challengg e whole notion of fedel preemption when you look at new york state, originally robert kennedy junior of bnvaln on alngtimec mega i the governor f new york, andrew cuomo and his battle there, eric schneider has a sucessful lawsabout fire a lsreent the renewal process the plant has to undertake millions of dollars of

improvements. for mos, thgornorcomes state legisle. said abo theiro, relyew beause of the team tritium and a cooling tower. massachusetts, governor duval patrick was there, comletely against e pirim soewed wea. ytoou and so, this is worth pointing out because this is where we're headed in california. states with a face or 20 now. and ihink this is going to become aao ssuhe state. can i talk a little about my experience looking at seismic safety >> let's talk about california, what they need to the rest the country with operating problems right now. on wcoac online at

a lower capacity. the city of irvine recently said nearby they want that not renewed and to be wound down. is that possibly going to happen here in sane? m . haa question. nobody knows exactly what is wrong than the cost of repairing blood is drawn may significant. if it's repairable, we nver operate att e pte ope. ieratug available to generate revenue to pay off the bonds. and last but not least and most important of curse is we better take a harder look atissues associated with old plants and everything associated withta tot ha be replad and said they could replace him pay it off even within the current license. it wasn't footn the door to

get relicensinthat some people allege. wecete n ic duty.een. we also asked for the same study to be done offshore san onofre. using technology years ago that discovered the fault ofsore loyo w tleencies in the second fault a few years ago. the federal agency are arguing whether this is a significant find or not. federal scientists relate disconnect o. lof uld not asd w relatively safe before the decision is made to continue operation of facilities and they can be operated safely so we don't ve the fukushima or a aor r ec asabe, i incredible.

you can hunt some disasters. if you mess up a plant, just fuim at san onofre and >> scullymarv fertel, could san onre be taken off the line? i can answer that with more informatio but what i can say about n onre's h oned creblwhar ryibitthc. asary ave them. the thing i can tell you is i saw this tenet recently and he wabasically very clear he's going to make sure it's safe before it stts u werolve frheafcue dpoint that's at the people of california can feel about if there's a change culture led by the ceo. >> i guess it's hard to say it's not safe but what startedout.

hesa twlba reallysaidtat. tough ecision. take the man at his word for doing the right team. the second thing is fukushima avila not at all downplayed significance is fkushima as an on mie thin pee. de npnth earthquake in the synonymy. there's no one bad, no one injured and no one having health effects from the studies they done so far that doesn't mean they will be down the ro from sh wis in smoft the time. but what we saw here on tv the whole time was a terrible accident and it airplay and, trailers talki about 15,000 thas symd 2,000 dead. hq st washing up in alaska is not fukushima.

it is from the millions of tons of material, houses, those, bodies probably ahdahr telenahead. also the actual fukushima plant had no problem with the earthquake. a shutdown safely from the earthquake. what killed fukushima with he wenrtkeviia str. asger than the design basis of the north and a plan. 11 miles from the plant. it is notng from a safety standpoint and hwsewed he n n y cy. there was no damage to any part of that plant for the safety standpoint. >> jim boyd. >> another nuclear plant in japan, the largest nuclear plant hasuffed signicant damage omeauaevy

. japan is -- they know they're an earthquake zone. they have a design basis to allegedly handled the situations. and yet, this plant suffered significant dmage. some are nottefra s ilt get it right. >> just on that gem, and jim is right. there's seven units they are. it suffered some damage. water sloshed out of the pool, tremendous damage to the villages in around e l tyteorne e tsudo safely and maintain safe shutdown. a lot of damage to the planet. >> i don't think this is the point. the point is, you know, how often we avpo eowd the drend they're all different scenarios. and so it's really sobering and

they have been much quicker than the science or rcrp held tshb g 's concern. i just want to talkbout what we found in our research in terms of safety. if you like it speaks to a whole closer isue. this is something that kind of haunted e siy s wda canyon, there's two faultlines primarily in play there. there's the house we saw that we found about for me time that's about four miles offshore and then the shorine whichis siy ailomerm re sl twa discovered by usgs scientists in 2008. what i find troubling about that and jim i would love to ow iyou g ihhs

mr-acd ty aieter a this. if fukushima hadn't happened we wouldn't have any studies whatsoever around that planned because i was there appeared a good feel and estate house in the capil insam t changing. i was there days after following fukushima. i heard the nrc's testimony and they were saying the plan is trthist tfhe nrcis saying w tng m holding here in my hand -- this is what kind of haunts me. i'm holding in my hand here a graph. this is basically the. th significance of the default line is something we discovered in the course of our

instigation. the one presentation, norm abramson, an employee of pg&e t cal berkeley prossor rs c owe'think that this fault line, what he said, conects with that fall. we don't believe that appear but what if it did connect? he basically tried to look at thsignifican of at appear t hoth ie purported as -- the point is that the level of shaking was above the eel which could poiallcauscoamat eln u cly it downplayed that is that it wasn't that much above it at a frequency whicdoesn't buy much important. >> so would be significant. nrensptte,sot

went to texas and the type to the head of region for a told us basically, yes, we fundamentally rely on what the utilities a telling us when it comes t sonen ee. political pushback and we are seeing studies move forward. but i feel culturally it's troubling that i find it oublg that there's potential that at this very moment that b wve the studies hadof it not been in fukushima? >> a couple of them t ergy oio n agency has pointed out issues. they don't get a lot of a lot of traction without legislature unfortunately. i haven't bee a calamity. there was a calamity except for

legislator baead tod mosts, et cetera, et cetera drive this issue that crazy in the california legislature and against her other energy agencies. i don't know if there would have been study. pugi.ornia wld he i am not anti-nuclear. i am for what is good for my native state. i'm a fourth-generation californiaand a 50 year purchase retired public svant. and in effciaitior tcgylmydult life that we as humans and do i feel comfortabl andopefully my and enci aretoilinue o pride ar an ow ve do.

>> we're discussing nuclear power with jim boyd, marv fertel, nuclear power institute in job rubén, repter for the center for investitive na nt pupm of the asualties from fukushima and ask job rubén and jim boyd something. ..

member, eiciency is job one in california. e bes thi to d wae isobwo,sk t can generation is the third tier. so is not a debate of the safety and health aspects of coal versus narl gauze and number -- natul gnd have been affected and look at what we did to all those soldiers during the years we

tested above ground, and exposed them -- look at the years and years and years of knowledge accrued afterheto osnap aut w apns to tan species when it's subjected to this type of radiation. do you want to take that gam until do you want to take that risk until you're assured of prty much 100 it isn't going to happe >>oiov ence question. coal is more dangerous than nuclear? >> nuclear is an impresssive technology. 16% of tower power in california comes from it. and putti ade the nuclear waste issues it doesn't crte aol i th l air about nuclear power. i'm not antinuclear either. what i'm about and good journal ism is about is making sure the public is inford. weav thincreex

nalorec inavthe or the next decade and that's should these two plants' licenses be renewed. wh whu downsesacme publicly owned utility, shut down in 1989. i think that -- the utility there, sacramento metropolitan utility district, everyone would like tbe their cus because theiratesre imhisbo smud. and i spoke to people there and they feel this is because they were able to get off this -- turn off this troubled plan. they exceeded theirevelver trac t he 38% renewable by 2020. they have incredibly impressive

rrays of power. the issue i't how many people diealhowane roi w it smart and makes economic sense. what are the real safety issues involved? not, is coal more dangerous than nuclear. >> i'm the economic -- on the quonl point beforeudienc is of mpeed energy experts in the world and the told fortunate magaze nat natural gas will bthe default fuel for new electrical generation going forward. the fact is, it used to be green thal gas is so cheap it's making nuclear a hard sell. >> making anything but gas a hard sell. now you have friends of the earth and sierra club against s. so, we'll see what happens, greg. there's no question we're going build a ofas in o ahi e'lson t

two and a half hour grace won't stay $2.05 gas. >> natural gas. >> that's price go up. let's go to audience questio. li.i've been pro nuclear all my ikheecol tuo talk to seem marks i've been paying attention to what happened, and -- fukushima, and arnie has been critil of do.neyd bhu si wng california, i'd like to bring into the forum, santa susanna. that was ventura cnty, i remember anarlyemye v newscaster flip on the switch and turn on the lights in ventura county. five or six reacts there in the santa susanna mountains

between sim valy and moore thes helow a itasgnor back in 1959 because nobody particularly cared. if we're talking nuclear energy in california, secretary sues -- santa susanna needs to b brghtorecsee vead nleam body knew. one of the local hospitals had a floor dedicated to cancer from those employees. >> thank you. let's go back, no comment on who remembers that te. . >> i have no knowledge. >> i'm aware of it. it's not somethinghat has been in the dialogue on a re basis. they were small but there was a dilemma, and you could extrapolate that out. it was aonti. fu wotr inngsute peidn ultimate price ft

and they're still cleaning it up and it's still off limits and the humldt plant was closed down many years ago because it got hold and was early generation but clodow in ic oim wthak an st ul be a tough sell. so, the gen1 stuff is old, and canroseshatang w i they might bring us. humans learn loot and maybe you can do things right. >> the next audience question. >> i'd like to point out that it's not technically correct that nuc rct ecy. pcet. he ise troduce the electricity. >> that's true. >> boiling water. >> many ways of producing -- some people call it the most expensive way to boil water. - was not mentioned atha

this discussion, is the nuclear waste. it's the major product these plants produce, and that poses a major problem. ca tleacte in the the n an 24/7. they have to be shut down to replace core fuel and those shutdowns can last at least a month if you're ucky, and if there's an unplanned shutdown the plantsecan b ol -- a whaenn n,or mthsf >inak t wte. we have skated over the waste d didn't give it just. it hasn't been solved. the federal govnment is not fulfilling its obligations to build a centralized repository. is theaste pemoio > tmen heter problem is to compliment your

senior senator, senator festein, for leadership in the senate. she has gotten legislation in an appropriations bill that will definitely be in the appropriations process at the hudt, certainly from all the shutdown sites, quickly, and to create a consolidated storage site. to your bottom line question, we generate about 2,000 metric tons ofas fhe,0egatt s have. it's very toxic stuff you have to handle really well. it's not a lot of material to take care of. if it wasn't for the opposition ofhe senior senator from neva weigov o licen o weldoor in nevada, which i think most people believe probably could get licensed. so, we'll see. i have confidence to be hones feein, wilke ano led senator

geroam pse onomion pohatheresident commissioned and that came out in january of this year. >> quit comment. i'm a political scientist and policy wonk and maybe the problem with the yucouain asor aal sin acitific decision. put it in the middle of nowhere place where there's a nuclear facility without paying attention to all the answers ano all questions and then nevada grew up and got powerful and they start --he oi t tesfinite.k i >> next odd audience question. >> i'm bob gould and i'm part of physicians forub ad one thing that was said was, i think really minimizing what the greenhouse

contributions of nuclear plants are because although when operating they're not producing the cbodiide a ealel ednctofh plant and we have to take a life cycle approach of health toward uranium mining and consider for the future what the impacts of climate change a going to be flngnheso r, ulrabilities of the calhoun reactor to backup systems and the like, and i think we need to be able to talk about the fact we don't have the public health infrastructure in our country to deal with disasters of the sortt hu ohodseoi live within 50-miles of nuclear power plants that our own country suggest would be the appropriate evacuation for our own citizens and soldiers in japan there have been a number abthenc of dealingin1

raesobl ags nuclear injury, to have the basic filities and personnel being able to address this issue. so i think we have to be very clear about what the public health implications are. we.tss tt - tohinkbout the ha. >> so, we're not ready for nuclear disaster, marv fertel. >> i think first of all we're doing everything to make sure commercially we don't he a nuclear dollars. -- nuclearisasr. st/1 t w lf le about nuclear plants. so i would say we're ready and we're going to be any better because you're taking lessons learn ron not just from shima aen we revised the nuclear plan and we'll be ready but those are real issues you have to address in a meangful way.

>> in life cycle and t fossil pts. inputnto nuclear per t ignitnd i -- professor jacobson from stanford that raised this, the cradle t grave analysis should be done. we're into the life cycle analysis biness, we should o it with everything you can i tarti ces out the cleanest in terms of climate change but weigh if with the risk. and there are consequences and may be publi health consequences we don't even know the final outcome of. quon.ver nexe lce. >>nk. patricia port. i think we need to bear in mind that so many of the earthquakes reported from all over the world by the u.s. geological survey fa. on previouslynk

im boy ds seem new faults appear and marv fertel, the one in maryland? >> touché. i grew up in the central valley which i was tolde're hqkero,y noweisvered the whole man tell of the earth is made up of cracks in the crust and this, that and the other and it's something to be concerned about. but the ability of scientists to understand it better is also provedratilly,u' goiohrgh oceiin owdge. the key thing is to use all the technology you have at the moment you have it, don't drag it out over time as some people i think are guiltyf doing in order to rush to judgment d not get all the answersou anheakeio >>hould the nuclear regulatory commission pay more attention to earthquakes? >> they are paying a lot more attention to it. to be honest they were paying

attention but probably not on lee path or sed jim wouldav ag ttti f renewal.s like i sd we ought to learn to deal with new information in real-time. not make it part of re newell or a ten-year cycle. do it when you get it. and figure out if is signifint and then figure out hooandlt. >>hoantike s of be relicensed with great uncertaintive about the seismic risks for the plant? >> i think they'll resol the seismic risks based upon the 3-d studies they' trying to do and thanalis tll and eynd d tter i you could have that come up the day after its relicensed and you would want them to look at and not care they just had another 20 year license. adesn seismoly demendous inbeernerant ion'thi w ever be -- there will always be

a great deal of uncertainty around place like san ono tray -- san onofre and diablo canyon, so it is aolic dgnt ot ig insten ya, we probably wouldn't have built it if we knew it was right underneath a large earthquake fault. perhaps it's go to retire it. or not. i mean, or we're willing to live with thoseisks? ihi ioe ara ouebs whether it should go forward. >> joe rubin is a reporter with the center for investigative let's h oexnand marvl. ti >> john hirsch at uc berkeley. i'm encouraged that at least one person mentioned real concern about the waste issue and the

pordvendstored becse it bealki about. but what troubles me about the entire discussion is the word kind of imbedded in the economics of electricity generation, and ihink in t waetednonime ago, as a universal design for all of the nuclear plants made in the u.s., there have been advances that have been promoted in france, and i've heard people bo t rsndays maybe to generate nuclear energy in the absence of the use of water. so there are things going onnd there's very little in the discussion todayha h any of tods it.it >> so new technology. are we inside a box?

>> john, thanks for the comment. the plants being built in georgia and south carolinare the most advand technologies the world right n lyheve g aot reas ste fukushima type accident happened with those plants, they were there in japan, the plants would basically be able to go 72 hours with no power, keep the reactor core coo go 30 days in keing t hl oloo heroem y eem marks if you had the designs we're building now, in our country, would have probably never digressed to the accident conditions they sawecause they would have had so much more time to takeorctiv actions, and becsehe un n ishe m aand. n tet me advanced? absolutely. >> that's talk about small modular reactors. bill gateses is backing a company which is using depleted anium.

go pdu l waste. >> small modular reactors there's a lot of interest i our country and internation. a country without a large grid, you don't want to put a large nuea coanyglsit, be it gat isy advanced reactor, it jumps well beyond where everyone is looking but he is going to build it in china because he can't get through the regulatory approvals fast enough here. i'm not sure that's what i would encourage him to do. ihinkou're going tee in ou caren o as aition out right now to jointly fund -- won't be real joint, be about a third them and two-this the companies -- two new small modur reactor designs and that's out on the strt. itht berethrough noting just for the our country but a big export opportunity.

>> my name is angelo nd i live in san francisco. soinsoar -- mbe i mis i d't tck don't think i dozed but all of the vulnerabilities you mentioned have been natural in nature. tsunami, fault lines, et cetera. what about us? what auteople. if i were a terrorist and i ntedo deram as a trarue ncd ul go attacking wind mills. >> jim boyd, you mentioned human vulnerability. let's wrap up there. >> i've obviously been deep into theubject er since 9/11, and while we didllencoag e tooohe si threats, design criteria, and maybe make them more ridge edin some -- rigid in some cases, thi the psychological threatf attacking a nucle a feyea

re ofng harm. it would take lifetimes of terroris to slice through a dry cask or get into the building. thpool is somhi we hey whavou. i'm more concerned about a dirty bomb, more concerned about out the nuclear materials running around in our society that has nothing to do with nuclear powerieing aravated io e deviha ea p o as tro would blow the switchyard up in a nuclear plant and scare the daylights out of a million people can there would not be a radiation threat. that's my opinion. that's notheopforot- pl i t tmsf, w nt them or we don't want them. there are a few vulnerabilities. they need to spruce up the able

to repulse attacks. we need toden pet thk the thing to worry about, in spite of all the hollywood movies that make it a threat. >> marv fertel, let's wrap up on the future. wi mor fotsnd dut col w heeayg in three or four years -- prefukushima -- that in our country because of the recession and shell gas and thedropoff in electricity demand, we saw fourlants by ehire b m e pele onrun. there's ten more getting their licenses from the nuclear regulatory commission. but i don't think we'll see a lot more than four operating by 2020. i do think you'll see more in the pipeline for both licensi and construction b >> rin e w bldomew ti to relicense the

existing ones? >> i don't know. i can't say what's good for america. o-- issues around nuclear power still existed. it still needs loan guarantees fro the federal government. there's no insurance company that will touch a nuclear plant, and the liability is limid to fr now ius so, -- and we saw -- talk to seem marks i don't -- fukushima, i don't know the eventual costs, wee a dt tnks half- jus t surprisingly. we're preddette polarized society and some states are more friendly touclear power than others. in california we're prohibited

from building any new plans ti tas i isold. >>oual a ssissue and the liability issue. >> first of all, on loan guarantee. no plant has a loan guarantee. one company is talking bit it. it wou reduce the cost of capital which saves the thisk to gerts it pje fincing-it's on the balance sheet of georgia power which has been around for 100 years and is solid as company. on insurance, basically you have an exempti to have t have any insurae for nleecse anrsaw ion't need it. joe doesn't need it, because it's excluded from a requirement because you're covered by wt we have to do under price anderson. so, i think we just needo be wavnd there. l aterin marv fertel, jim boyd, and joe

rubin. i'm greg, thankou forng us tay. pp >> coming up, iowa's first sh dsshe political blowback from the ruling that legalized same-sex marriage in the state, and discussion about preventible chronic diseases from the riance health soio is meeting in williamsburg, virginia, and c-span2as live coverage. >>artewacgn a

iaennd saw t mirt fur is time, and by 1979, she was in full-fledged opposition to carter and what she saw as carterrism, that a arcu calshe w fal of the shah and the fall of nicaragua.

theaan --litical woman behind >> book tv this weekend on c-span2. >> hit hoyte lerr en whe willized this armies were not coming to -- he collapsed when he felt -- he realized it had come to an end and it was a questio of suicide. >> histori with a new lk e sond wldarromdo tl'se power to his dark chaotic final days. >> the main objective not to be captured alive of the russians. he was afraid of being taken through moscow in a cagend be at a

evbrnetermined to die with him. >> marsha ternus spent 15 yea as a justice on the iowa supreme court in 20 sheecame tan become chief justice on the iowa court. in 2010 she and two other justices lost their seats on a bench after a ruling to allow same-sex marriage in iowa. they're removal marked the first justad nnwa supreme c e n iowa adopted a retention system for judges. she was invited to speak at the university of arizona law school in january. her ranks are 35 minutes. >> americaconstitution myamestund'm co yea sde and the vice president of acs, an

organization -- with each event ou chapter hopes to enrich the educational experience he at the college of l day w extremely pleased to hear justice marsha terus. she was also chief for the d e ahe ia upmert93 and was elected chief justice in 2006. becong the first woman to serve as chief justice. during her tenure on the court, in april of 2009, the iowa supre court issued a dn h ansl dre -se rtr unconstitutional. making iowa the third state in the country to allow same-sex marriages. a year later, the three justices up for retention were suessfully tearinged by an orgazed campaign toe jueer was one of three

justices removed. arizona state legislature has considered ballot approval to prs. the mitecti stnfd he iue see becoming justice turnus. [applause] >> tha you, stewart. g ano

prci to they're not abstract to me. i have lived them are or shy say i have survived them. as you no in the retension electi, voters removed thr stices f tem caga themd by out of state special interest groups. the primary impetus for the campaign against the justice was the iowa supreme court's unanous decision 19 months earlier in vn, clow den rr violated the equality rights of same-sex couples under the iowa constitution. the events in iowa provide a concrete context for our discussion on judicial independence, ahe se bol s judicial

elections. so this giant would like to talk about the decision and its aftermath and the larger context of the critical role of an independent jew dish rayin our republic. t cple en of thehe courts of justice well be central in a constitution that limited legislative authority. e recognized, and i'm going slightly paraphrashisords -- enudry ecsa tua wihe majority, who may wish to opress a minority group in a matter incompatible with a constitutional provision. hamilton understood that in the end, individuals rely on the cour tonse theig eth constitution, are preserved and protected. one would thick we should all share an interest in preserving the supremacy of the constitution and protecting

independents and interesting degree othe crtntri the alues were that shared by me persons and organizations who opposed the retension of three members of the iowa supreme court in 2010. e stated purpose of the campaign against the justices was to send a message in iow d acrosheoury, iorehe ofhe people at their peril. a message of retaliation and intimidati utterly inconsistent with the concept of a judiciary charged with the responsibility tophdhe titi rhtsf ze. f wan really understand how destructive such a message is to our democracy, it's important to have a shared understanding of the foundation of our system of justice. tahehe th yll ltunt lawyers or law professors -- america's system of justice is

based on the rule of law. the rule of law is a process of governing by laws that are applied fairly and uniformly t becaeheeulapiehe same manner to everyone, the rule of law protects the civil, political, economic, and social right of all citizens, not just the rights of t most vocse poze mtpouldtheos yi tul of law is the sum and substance of the work of the courts. so when we speak of judicial independence, we are referring to a judiciary committed to the rule of, indepeden, out iluce, ud psol bias and preference. iowa, like other states, created a government under the rule of law when the citizens adopted a constitution that set for the the fundamentalules and principles thawoulyo?

in ft,iaonstitution expressly states, quote, this constitution shall be the supreme la of the land. and it goes on to say that, so titiollawnc provisions are given meaning by the courts because the judicial branch is responsible for resolving disputes between citizens and their government. sometimes these disputes include a citizen's claim that the government has violatedis or he citios. sh i iheut of courts to determine the constitutionality of the legislature's act courts are guided by the people's statement in tir constitution that any law inconsistent with the constion i void. egdl o wth a icult will be popular, courts must protect the supremacy of the constitution by

declaring an unconstitutional state invalid and uneven forcible. only byrotecting the supremacy the cstutn cis hahe feds a gh s out in the constitution will be preserved. in this way, judicial review serves as an important check on the legislative and executive branches, ensuring a proper balance of power not oyng e bncf rnntet op and their government. of course the people can always amend their constitution to ensure its content and meaning asndamtoedrnt public onion. uil people have amended the constitution, it is binding upon themself collectively as well as individual and no presumption or knowledge of the pple's seen cra t frtive aar

it this background in mind let's turn to the iowa's supreme grn.t decision in barnum verse theas wug pple cnies in anto talk about these 12 iowans because people forget this lawsuit was about the lives of real people and not an abstract resolution of the debate over mechanics - leheesipf this sides from the court's opinions. >> the plaintiffs are responsible, carrying, and productive individual, maintain important jobs are or retired and are contribute ben never lit members of the include and magece, brse bus ge s a home parent, church or gappist, piano teacher, museum director, federal employee, social worker, teacher, two retired teachers.

like many ians,ee sfosr res and they prize their liberties and live within the borders of the state with the expectation that their rights will be maintained and protected, a belief embraced by our state motto -- and jt liie w pze ao o gh we will maintain. now, going back to the opinion. despite the commonality shared with other iowans the 12 plaintiffs are different from mose in one way. mes hewnex.xually and the 12 plaintiffs complies six same-sex couples who live in committed relationships. ch maintains a hope ofetting married one day and as separions shared by many thr ia r e prourt's

decision, iowa law prohibited same-sex couples from marrying in iowa. at that time and currently, iowa's marriage statute states, marriage is a civil contrt uirethe nsef iesab ofer ctracts, except as herein otherwise provided. one of these exceptions is iowa's version of te defense of marriage act. it provides only a marriage between a male and a female is bad ontu phiting civil contracts of marriage between persons of the same jennifer, the county recorder refused to issue marriage licenses to the six same-sex couples. these 12 iowans then filed a rensndheye the cou oer claimhe law limiting civil contracts of marriage to one man and won william was unconstitutional and uneven

rcib. the constitutional provioon eqaninudseld he the constitution when iowa bill a state. it provides in relevant part, the general assembly shall not grant to any citizen or class of citizens privileges which, upon eqllbengals. ia supreme court held that the state law limiting civil marriage to one man and one woman violated the plaintiffs' equality rights underhe iowa constitution. why? ca t rted nuusrile t ow f civil marriage to a limited class of citizens and there are over 200 benefits and privileges under iowa law accorded to marriedersons. beca the ionio innthhew nstusoi the supreme court declared the

finding statute void and granted the plaintiffs the relief they ought and ordered the county untionestifd not rely onhe on mor and was therefore obligated to issue licenses to the six same-sex couples who brought the lawsuit. of course, the story doesn't end ere. io ronleiohaernvolves sowhat similar to arizona's. we have a commission-based merit selection process for choosing judges known as the missouri plan. the process begins with jual reviewingssnateeppnt extensive information about each applicants background, education, professional skills and experience. after interviewing the applicant the commission submits the names of the three most highl

qlieddidas to the rn,hereir ic tj f ison's nominees. the other aspect of iowa's merit selection process are the retention elections. in a retention election a judge runsnopposedndots oowhr otn jge rnoerm. i for supreme court justice is eight years. historically, politics had played no role in judicial retention elections and iowa justices hadot found it necessary to forampaign mmte to eage ndisinpa in y mne in the 2010 general election that followed the 2009 decision, three members of the iowa supreme court were on the ballot for retension. the 2010 retention elections weer fro p bee otipaon e decision, the justices on the ballot were targeted by a

mississippi based group, afa action inc. persons supporting afas campaign against the justices deg iowa to be a same-sexcou marriage state. interestingly, this claim was not based on a critique of the court's legal analysis. e didr o mieret the iowa constitution in finding the defense of marriage act violated the plaintiffs' equal protection rights. rather, the court was criticized for ignoring the will of the people, and for ruling ntry to l isat criticism was particularly troubling because the court made an effort to clarify the narrowness of its decision. as i noted earlier the law at issue governed a legal cact.

heignstiu of rrge ounted out this distinion in its opinion, and i would like to quote from our opinion. our constitution does not permit any branch of government to resolve religious debates, a enri gen aheourt t tk o the statute at issue in this case does not describe a definition of marriage for religious institutions. instead the statute declares marria is a civil contract, and then rulates that civil contact uringk in case we proceed as civil jumps, for a removedrom the debate of religious clerks and focus on the state licensing clsntleat identifs limed curights and benefits associated with civil marriage. as a result, civil marriage must be judged under our

constituonal standards of equal protection, and not under religious doctrines or the religis ew o iiv. >>ftngs constitutional required that the state accord the same marital status andenefits benefits to bh opposite-sex and smacks mix couples we pointed out in o desk that, quote, religious tholre uffie w say, a religious denomination can still define marrie as a union between a man and a woman. notithstanding the fact that reouelrraiced sstantial opposition to the justices' retension came from individuals who believed the court violated god's law or tural law. adte fo vote on theurged u

retention of the justices, which many people did. one leader against the retension declared of the election, iowa voters had done, quote, god's will by standing up to the thr juhoerryo dene g's institution. one has to wonder if the persons campaigning against this even read the decision because, a i have pointed out, the court expressly avoided redefining the reliious instituon . our opponents also resorted to an inaccurate and alarmist message about the impact of the decision. the afa local spokesman says the maia.wot a g w a assti ourtegislated from the bench. it said if they will do this for marriage all your libertied are up for grabs. advertisements reenforced the

idea that the iowa supreme court trampled ons rts forle ia for freedom, which is the afa group, program, in iowa, the national organization for marriage and the campaign for working families, the narrator told viewer, if they can redine ia, i tres hd rom judicial activism. of course a simple reading of the decision shows that theowa supreme court took away no one's he daragctand freedomsn it suen to the contrary, the civil rights of same-sex couple to the secular benefits that flow from the civil contract of marriage were upheld. moover, the views of individuals anreligious institutions w unfake bid the dis eigi f t fiheelio ititi arag as only between one

man and one woman was expressly preserved. but the campaign against the justices was about more than varnamsex mri ec an oe wefhe crttsf. critics of the courts' opinion mind it the court had no power or authority to review the constitutionality of statutes. this view is clearly wrong. alw ofhe onhe most important functions of the courts in our republic. a function that the iowa supreme court had performein literally a thousand case prior to this decision. ouiaev is entirely consistent with our founding father' vision of the relationship between the three brans of government, at

alexande hamilton said, without the power of the courtso e a ofheeglare rights and privileges reserved to the people would amount to nothing. >> dealing with conoversial issues has always been part of being a judge. and certainly pubc de mitof siseahy at of remtic society. but what message is sent when a retention election is used as a referendum on a particular court decision? what message is senthent is edntu w in fureill e politically unpopular decisions? opponents of the decision argue judges must b held accountable to the people when the court makes a decision the people not le. butheessagey wea wha jdshoul rule in accordance with popular

opinion, even when that means ignoring the constitution. i read an article by a minnesota judge w responded to similar contentions whis seitht s g he judges accountable to the people, but which people? should judges be can'table to those who shout the loudest or make theost threats? should judges be accountle to theajy? he minorities? and what happens to a judge's responsibility to uphold the law and th constitution? when a judge starts to worry about who the judge will please or displease wh a ruling, tn ea gerent se l >> just consider the united states supreme court's decision in brown verse board of education. if public opinion were the standard by whichudshould

keecio thaas wld ob had aifre outcome. court's decision in brown was unpopular with many, many people at the time, yet that decision is now universally respect. as former justice sandraeo connor has oerro cion, exercise in accountability tohe rule of law over the popular will. think the varnum decision was . we i assure y the members w wssd thev m decision it would unleash a would a wave of criticism and be now we could lose our jobs, nonetheless we remained true to our th o office in which we promed to uthowanstuhoea favor, or hope of reward.

it should come as no surprise that judges are most at ris when they uphold the rights of politically unpopular minoritie as alexander hamilton wrote, quote, it is a great importance in a republic not only to guard the society against the oppression of its reres, but to guard one part of the society ait e juef r pt.mead agreed, noting, quote, in republics the great danger ishat the majority may no sufficiently respect the rights of the minority. thatinentudfathers recognized saar rights of all parts of socie. hamilton observed that in such situations, quote, it would require an uncommon portion of fortitude in the judges to do ofonutduty asaithl arans

the fortitude of many judges will be tested in the coming years. the groups that were successful in iowa have vowed they will not stop with the removal of three justices from t ia e ur dro ierdoc suot the only ones that pose a threat too a fair and impartial judiciary. business and commercial interests might believe they can ok tts in onea politicizdiar decision in that case the president of massy coal company contributed ovr $3 million to elect brent ben -- benjamin hees ginisue t. r ect njinefus to recuse himself from an appeal fil by the coal company so all five

justices on the west virginia supreme court participated in coom ovo o 3nd day reversed a ti benjamin tsaing -- casting the deciding vote in favor of the coal company. regard will go of the motivation for the vote, the appeae of th appearance of independence i have no doubt that the groups active in the retention election and other special good intos ev i ia aee innedy the timi a iluce mist threat of removal from office. my fear is that efforts to intimidate the jiciary will over time affect theud wiingnesoheir d a uaian t

constitution or will result in the election or selection only of judges who agree to adhere to a certain agenda. i hope w never reach the point in this country that judges become no more thanol ob did cn accordance with public opinion poles or based on what will satisfy their campaign contributors, and greatly fear the current effort to transform judges ioheheogns in robes and ruling in favor of biblical ''guidance. if that day comes thi society and our republic are in erious ouble. lyn pe j en mor otted tyrny of e majority. only an independent jew dish ray committed to the rule of law can safeguard every citizen

liberties and rights. whrtensel leio undermine judicial independence, make no mistake about it. over time this trend will result in a judiciary that is less and less likely to be fair and impa y? rst, t rnd perceived corrupting influence of campaign fundraising. do we really believe that special interestsroups and corporations who support a judicial candidate do not expec wans pern totein an tt expectation will not be lost on some judges. seco, a side from the fundraising aspect of politicized judiciallections, reation aimatoy tts o judges. sadly, some judges will be

discouraged from following the rule of law when to do so will lead to an unpopular outcome. unrco a as cities o'connor s who is forced to weigh what is popular, rather than focusing solely on what the law demands, as lt some impartiality. els uerney, o'lit sized judicial mocry en wgs teor rained adhere the rule of law. even if judges have the courage to disappoint their campaign contributors, or to ignore the threats of special interest groups, fundraising and campaigning byudges blurhe pois.w j a when judges are viewed by citizens as politicians, as susceptible to influence, confidence in the courts is

undermined and thentegrity a validityfrt dns co spe. d neilat. i have seen first hand the impact of plate -- politicize edi lexes on the court as an institution and i'll give you an example. i was on the supremeou,owa an herhe integrity of our court or the motivation for our decisions questioned directly or incorrectly. never. in 17 years. but in the two months after the 2010 retention electnd wienhaed showed me the view of our court had changed forever. in two different cases, two different attorneys challenged orders the supreme court anssmshaturming inere orrs inaser litically motivated. never had i seen such claims in

pleadings or otherwise in 17 years on the court but i saw t in the tw months i served after th electn. heereng a thct cg i of campaign contributions and judicial intimidation, or simply the perception that the judiciary n be influenced, politicized judicl elections se susisks to our ou gerent can only function as it was intended to function if the checks and balances by our founding fathers are preserved. one check and alance is the duty of courts to declare laws inconsistenth t constutionoid. rly tncle iur de and state constitutions will be preserved and given meaning only if they are supported and enforced by a fair impartial and independent judiciary. en me is rre

ecio fhe gitima i theillingness of the other branches of government and our citizens to abide by those decisions. ifouecioreecedemneed haveo integrity in the debate about controversial court decisions and the judges who mak them boils down to aimple question. what kind of court system do americans want? a crtha iue upon public opinion poll, campaign contributions and political contributions or a court system basing rul aheul w. riotd r and impartial judiciary, we mug

spouse the courts even when t rights they uphold are not our unlainory.e of aoliticly oeaheale school once worned, -- warned, the level of lack of understanding of basic civics is an actual threat th future stabilit tubli topaces rs t r t tee equal branches 0 of the government it will not be long before the foundation of the governmentill be sunday september able to becoming compromised. ...

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candidate who knows and these are all code words for saying worksite days. and because we are a fact of, our speech ought to be choked f. exhighroe month. prime minister, julia gillard answered questions and the economy, including a new carbon tax on immigration. this is theapcbl fa channel. >> hello, david and cameron.

highlights of the greatest esanpocsim parlame. e uxbot sylum seekers to australia and heightened political tensions. during june, a number foes arise and to capsized on their y here around 100 eople roue m tes, labor and the coalition both agree that offshore is sending them to another country two of the claims process would deter people trying to make the journey here, but they can' agre wre t offe essi suld ta l de amoand heated exchange of what to do about this problem. also, we now have a cabon price, the gillard a cae ito bysiti sglpo re aom t

highlights. >> my question is to be a teen prime minister. can the acting prime minister named a single head of apfrhiy mier hitke andce families with an economy wide carbon tax of at least $23 a ton? >> orator. the oppositi wattoeaan thimir s he call. >> i've been to a few g20 conferences. as i sit around, went t a file of the developed economies ought know. ecythea8nved australia. no stronger developed economy and the g20 then australia, but of course what d we do here?

the opposition comes into this hoe and goes aunh unanlke om down. deliberately insulting all the hard-working business is and millions of workers that have worked hard to make our economy strong. ve been asked by he leader of the opposiohow ny trar t20b. they deal with dangerous climate change in situations where they can reduce their emissions. let me say ths. heinimni h floor. >> 70 mpg 20 ministers who are 85% are putting in place a mission trading sche at a naonalee iswas 0. and i'll tell you what, you'd be

terribly embarrassed. the g20 nations developed economies and developing tol i pt d arpug lace a national or subnational omission writing scheme. they go specifically to some of thecuntries on h p poon >>skimhelde single country with a single carbon tax. >> a single one. >> the acting prime is >>amuter. >> out of the four years to july 2011, european carbon of 16 to $50. inp t it country could er

at situation by italy. there's the united kingdom. there's a whole range of veloped economies that are part of the european schemes. thenpiesanhe's eso it will change it. but we do now is the carbon prices in the european film have traded between 16 and $50o the quontt clearly. you are so embarrassed for your performance because countries around the world are putting in place, which i understand the importance of dealg with dangerous imateca thinus during the june parliament. to those capsizing on their way

from indonesia to australia, carrying asylum-seekers around a hundred people year-round. twde a e e ha douis eon rgdeb bill did pass the lower house, but not the senate. th legal stalemate continues. >> on beha of thhouse, i thapnedhrda ih try enas sr boat capsized with considerable loss of life he deputy speaker, the precise details of this matter still remains nknown. were we to know is that hyssel 2 leboth though, including a 13-year-old boy. it did capsize up a considerable loss of life. and while they were escued this stage, waeuabo tee ic h

opavls rivsn nancy. 110 survivors have been transferred to authorities on christmas island and a number had been transferred to the thadlhmn forttmen. i mrsose rlntldfeg e weight of that and we can see many in our community who are grieving from this dreadful news. >> aires to support remarks at thprime minier pted ceto n.an we mourn for the dead. weekly for delivery to have suffered much in the offer our support to all the navel and other personnel who had done anscfo.ey could in he sech t inye blame in a tragic situation like this, surely it's the people who prey

on desperate peoples and the desire for a better life in australia. al ssl ubed deptyspa, nss s whs the best cause of action to take. i'm sure all of us in this house servers old to put the policies in place that land forever this evil trail. depy serbee ewu se t vent allow standing should be suspended procedurally in order to allow this man to be concluded. i raised that with the minister r thiovmehithemiiter u d lithans chatiptance are serious issues come a very serious issues need to be resolved. the leader of the opposition is moving a motion to allow a bill to be debated in theater tat prt a enth iscralmbof pof the mint i believe

in both the south than i would hope the other with the exception of the greens as the coieate siedleas 140 oerldtake th48 the was outlined by none less than the last election and the gornment policy before the last election that ould only send pe or ext procnga trgn e ge oen there is the opportunity to pass the bill that reflects the consensus and gives the government the protections in the powers to strengthen and restore our borders, to ensure bos noopse agad bos noak by the continuation of the policy we've seen since the present natures of the government are established.

>> considered in the sort time reatisl lds ait. not only because of the events today, but because of the events over the last decade. i urge all members of the house to at east allow this toe ied a ms n'wr,tke i to the next election. take it to the people. but we showed in this chamber allow an executive to its job. this is in no way running terference on counitbase is a genuine refugee and asylum status in australia. it is a much as anything trying to stop the loss of lives that see and epin togtto aulir mbf reasons. it i trying to reach bilateral

agreements with countries in the asia-pacific region to slow the movement of people. this is the 10th game to try d brekriminal syndite at plain aeg is of asylum-seekers and genuine refugees involved in the insidious people is not going i'm the one that doesn't get much airtime minister alia. thim petickifal d particularly in the pacific regions and yes, right in australia as well. >> yesterday and people watching thtoni people are aski theust tpamepi partisan and political diides to save lives? this parliament should today said he has. we will put aside politics and the ordiny days.

we willputatn ind l to save lives. >> deputy speaker. >> i will notrack anything during this te. >> mntesal eoha criticiz. there are people who will continue to criticize the militia agreement has been too harsh. there are difficult decisions for government minists and dyons.ssshs tok. e is nothing as harsh as saying to people that she must risk your life to come to australia in order to receive the stress prtect e ot hitn t aacd e thg shrssg we will at that position continue. >> essay outline before

questions, the senior opposition representative on this cf. 221 requ inecem20he atndreds before, styling time down with the straits arrived at christmas island. is otdywhewors t christs people on that island had seen in my life time. and members -- other members in this chamber will send your account today. we went down o whereit foundereand spoke t toesnn who had --

who adrsueteep fore t ship. and they told us specifically out en t shimen and ha power left so it could only be captured bythe this route it would be pushed onto the rocks and would be taken back out andhed onto the an trillions of the designers who were still entwistle stood on the shore

literay the distance between thouagurnd the government an scers eoebody managed to jump astonishingly this incredibly lucky inviduals jumped on the christmas island. that's how close the vote came to thesuh one of the australians told me h cththe coud rescue -- andtad

perished. the try to force a we are dealing with similar things at the moment. and ofur i've dealt with tbltae. >> the contributions of this debate. the debate was extremely serious and wide look at this debate is a command position where i was 12 months ago about my views for onthago whertheyre heht w cesse s. in l12th preceding the tragic christmas island a few months ago. was i the tragic scenes on tv this weekend a young man h found se ie czedt lives. we did know how many have survived or been found. the few people tht did make it,

but we did see on tv i looked a r . hehe tng, i think this is a tragedy that we have to do whatever it takes to stop. i think what we have here before is today in this chamber a tool siremesmember isa ist o rlnta deliberative one question time ison and do nothing about the subject is absolutely valid. orotpealso e iouny bt me in relatn to refugees. mr. kennedy said the forebears came here in the 1970s and my hee a country where

there was horror, but he was desperate to comehr when mr. kendy is right, there's a great deal of hypocrisy from time to time in the states. but i'll say one thing to you, i stand up to this parliament. i'll eerr support ap posts watch where you can find a 13-year-old child to a country withoutsbti il omy body. some people say they're i't.tling with cautio.

knxa wi t th ompromise that the leader of the opposition went some way benasslrto offering a solution wh le, 'etough that the previous prime minister, man prime minister and i opposed it until the moment he assured that at all times rasad he who resent day that they would be particularly able to have health care and education support so he could assure me that the most thwaen ye dulde pert. was prepared to cross the floor

with an absolute majoity because i disagreed unopposed the st will buy prime pealgtherth th minister for immigration that no child would either be abandoned in another country when say, under the protection of his wonosorit he aured me did. this government is now asking us to support a situation where a 13-year-old child could be sent mt.another motion wioutnygao arh if anything actually affords to the immigration minister on a case-by-case basis, it is the threat of it. and from time to time, the enactment oi i

mnthfor conscience. that is why i feel entirely consistent. that is why it was so angry because i had wrestled, like many others that the conscnce i ti osistent. i will sleep easy because i know om my own background and what i've done in the past that i am going to be consistent no matter ma hard it might be explaining it to make situations , i rest easy on that because i am entirely consistent with what he said then myol heutihfo resolved and the alternative. >> the highlights of the parliamentary sitting in june.

i'm david spears. thank you for your company. see you next m >> they had no plan. i mean, when you ralize the armies were not coming to his state, but were trying to espe to te west, that is when he collapsed, when heraid thes o suicide.

>> h made object was simply not to be captured alive by the russ. asarig ri owthca n did,he was determined to die. at work i was determined to die with him. >> campaign collection is about 100,000 that goes from the very beginning of the nation goes right up to the present. that's important because we were tryingo do is keep thislarge itfanddcme lctagtof american democracy.

>> on alliance for health reform report, 56% higher than for rmaladult leh hoic diseases. among the speakers come in the cdc's chronic disease prevention direct during new york city's health and hygiene commissioner.

>> afternoon. i am at howard. i want to welcome you on behalf of senator rockefeller and board of directors to this program about preventing chronic ith tionally andn communities around the country. very quickly, there is a national epidemic of chronic disease that affects 130 million de cacts 7f7% spending. at those kinds of numbers to track attention, even at a time ke this were billions have lost favor to trillions. nus iasthel ient h fohefseveral that speak directly to the problem of chronic disease. but well before that reform was

enacted, communities around the usnd byithe made foro more physical activity as a way to improve the health of their population. we call today's session of chronic disease prevention can save a life saving money and we'll hear from folks who can help us understand whacan be tssta rc as opp, what is being done and what the impact of those steps is. bullock isclosely as any briefing we've everea h -tfilicans f a ntal astrid estep tourers slowing chronic disease. fortunately our panelists are well-equipped to help us examine these various initiatives and promise they may hld. now ur prn d po i eshpr foundation, the largest

philanthropy exclusively to return to the tag link correctly, helping aericans enjoy a healthier lives and get the care tey ne fotiholdji ay a his colleagues for their help in pulling this program together. a couple logistical items before we could do the packets you will find important information inudinak isad h heart copies of the powerpoint slides so see on the screen. there's also a lot more background information avilable and that is all availab als on talsi aal thaw. ey wl be webcast available of this briefing sometime in a probably on the kaiser family undation ebste.

brng rein h a watch for th hedud to see when it will be broadcast. and if you happen to be watching the recording of c-span right now, you can find more resources on our website, you putting the slides yo can follow fiut gre question card and will give our panelists a chance to answer it and the evaluation form before you leave will help us to improve these programs as we go ln w,vessed crly kwledable group of panelists at national and community level experience. ey're giving brief presentations and manual have a chance to join the conversation directly. we're going to startwt dr. ursula bauer, health

promotion at the centers for disease control and prevention. she's an epidemiologist with the law background at the state and natl ls s i getazito pursue her sunday school underscores the preventing tobac use, improving nutrition in promoting physical activity. dr. bower, thank you for joining us. let me turn it to you. >>hiveucdd rneeyone. as you know a you just heard from ad, chroic diseases continue to be a major problem for the united state even as they make real progress in reduci rates with heart disease and cancer is the adgle. rodisease are responsibe for seven of every 10 deaths in the u.s., flipped 130 to 140 million americans. many of whom are living with two threnggn aronic nations.

chconditions including heart disease, diabetes and arthritis cause major limitation for nearlone in 10 americans th$.liha .sfor 75% of our more s y odire importantly, chronic diseases are largely preventable. it's hard to find a chronic disease that's not caused by, exacerbated by renée gdily ct oom o t imri factors. tobacco use, poor history sugar physical inactity. improving these behavioral risk factors that go a long way towards preventingr mitigating chc diseases. effective prevention can reduce or eliminate these risks that

there is, can detect diseases early and never progreion or complitioncntutst fr he people. for evidence-based prevention strategies are good and sometimes even cost-saving. when prevention fails, that is when thefail to do what we know works toprevent disease andehat au ed srindma death. we encourage needless cost, not just for the individuals who are living with chronic diseases, but for all of those who shared he isboli and private. often these payers are our businesses and employers who we hurt and with the dual expense of paying for costly and emeecot al.nehronic disees and

then a fact errors affect our health. where we are born, education and in time, where we live and work in the accs that we havewo qualithe. che lat rtunities to intervene to prevent disease and promote health, we focus on the second level of the peer name, changing the context. pe'sdspogtting hwd he le tg gef their health. whether it's opportunities to breathe the air is free from tobacco smoke, having fe gry esple rd physically at the protecting ourselves and our children from dental care at all disease and tooth loss that her

grandparents a great grandparents experience. iclt neventns to anheon aak alchs f americans reach the greatest number of people i can have the largest impact. these interventns are often motecti hanlchr as wl clinical ierventions in counseling and education. hower i want to emphasize that the steps in this pyramid are not in competition with each her. ialo theaesis toan stay hot the across the lifespan. at the national center for chronic disease prevention and heal promotion, our role are what we dolisted on heft de oths de. wdo it is on the right a

that's by working in four key domains. epidemiology and surveillance is a foundation of cdc's work. provide data d inrmatn toeveladdoyfeve inrmation can identify gas and program delivery and monitor our progress in achieving progra goals. data and information come with responsibility to use it well. we engage in health inatthee mn n nsreat e best decision unpublicized likely the result of our work to demonstrate their return on investment in prevention. environmental approaches sfe onicnex hiears me healthy behaviors easier and more convenient for americans. healthy communities deliver healthier students to her school

is. hethier workers to businesses andepoysd alr puonthalar em. theskinds of interventions have wide reaching sustained impact and often require on the modest resources to accomplish, making them high-impact, a best fobleaane icpeopl health systems improve the clinical environment to more effect of the deliver quality preventive services and help americans more effectively used in an essay from th sevices. test oo avdompletely and others will be detected early to avert complicatns and improve health outcomes. innovations like electronic althrcymsa omliand ve e back on performance and

requirements for reporting outcomes such as control of high blood pressure and the population of today i'mcaner to focus on these preventive services. effective outreach to consumers to increase use for these services is also as aili ovea maximize th effective e of preventive services and the associated health benefits. community clinical linkages help ensure that people have access coioncey urge chrocces and clinician referrals, community delivery and third-party payment for effective programs like the national diabetesprevention progm and a varie of

lf-managt raor ri h dissead reicease the likelihood that people living with chronic illnesses will be able to follow the dot is orders and take charge of their health. improving their quality of life and avertg or delay t ons avngmptiane importantly, reducing the need for additional health care. by working in these four areas, we'll reduce obesity and diab, fuher reduce heart disease has tuolta nctoo and physical inactivity. but we won't do it alone. public health problems require soonilevel, multisectol heruokg at the national, state and local level and engaging public and private

sectors beyond help brig resources, expertise and solutions to the n cu oho c cng frst ntd thid-b strategies that address multiple chronic conditions simultaneously. working together in peace areas we will improve health, qua of latm ec he aein we will reduce the need for health care and better control our health care costs. thank you. wl ut toou very match r dr. thomas reilly, commissioner of the new york city department of health and dental hygiene. he's a pediatrician by training. he'salso helped service at both ininttdcndhed nationall

g hawt esl ltw has achieved in luring incidents of chronic conditions. thank you for being with us. >> thank you and good afternoon. i will take you through examples of ways inwich we n htrtoba thae o heteams wer doing, but i'll take you through the important ones a highlights of them and finished as a method in the effectiveness of our approaches. these are the things i'll go throug interventions that r don ennml l ha weulfe aanthe context and speciy smoking prevention, trans fat restriction and sodium reduction and then a summary of our clinical intervention is the health records wit lity ovintecalasnc etke smoking first. three major elements to a smoking prevention program in new yorkcity. first ensuring high price of

cigarettes to excise taxes. 00wi the blorg nitionam oe, se a al pack of cigarettes in new york city was $1.50. at that point a tax increase in new york city at $1.50 per pack which brought it to $3.39 subsequent increases in tax at the stand fdri 10tto tn acof re and $6.86 bid the price of a pack of cigarettes is about $1, which is the highest price in the nation, something we are very proud of se ltsi reivokee law. 2002 new york city passed a smoke-free air act which is a comprehensive act to ban smoking in workplaces, especially restaurants and bars. at that mehereas a .

exed in 2011 to include outdoor parks and beaches and in 2012 through institutional policy and city of new york will ve 2campuses completely tobacco re.e rd ao entwose use of hard-hitting media messages to warn people about the risks of smoking. these are done in ways which show very gaphically the effect of smoki. these are done using the best modern advertising tchnuesssaevs pssms evte surveys. the photos, slide out from the most recent can gain and recognize smokers in genal are not afraid of dying, but they don't want ufds amn,t e rr se au sufferg every minute and it emphasizes how suffering can last a lot time and highlights a person with emphysema, in other person with the stroke.

this is the ovrll feis thstyaioog o before 2002, smoking prevalence in new york city with a 21% for the decade since then, the percentage drop to 14%. more than one third decrease. that reesen 45000 erd e 2002. the decline is larger than that because we know the people currently smoking are smoking less than those located 2002 to the total cigarette consumption in new yk city hasallen by mo tha50%. realsoptiate utbee dee youth smking has been even greater. it was 25% around 2000 w it's 8% in new yorkcity. movingon orans fat ctstio ton rns f bac around

2005 and the rationale for this was that trans fat is an artificial chemical which is the need to be in our food supply which raises heart dieasrs. gyo flior, urgrmoofns ta every day would increase your heart disease risk by 23%. 2006 the w york city board of health passed a rule that prevented restaurants, which wod regulate new ykcitr cetrfandpa . ru enfrced our restaurant inspections, which we do otherwise for general food sanitation services and now have over 95% are compliant with the rule. the idea of trans ft has o preato 1othe jdins ndn r fin h ls of soum consumption and the rationale for that assist. it is clr what they'll consume far more sodium than is good for

us, probably at least twice as ave um cmp i isountry by 1200 milligrams per day, we would save tens of thousands of lives per year in reduced heart disease and stroke. in the past, physicians recommend peope have lo sodium fondpldialhi ve low opportunity to make reductions in sodium consumption because 80% of the sodium wickets in this and the food we y it. it's an package food, restaurant mact.ti t b wee dngrec nucturput less siu than the food. that is definitely possible. we found and now lead a national coalition called the national salt reduction initiativeta abediwl oduce tape by 20% over five years at

reducing sodium conten packaged and processed fish at 25% of the time. you a voluntary initiative i which heal orgizations a wog toodues akctio ar hy here with representatives of major food companies and through those meetings we provide a packad eaaty alied a categoriesin target reduction for the years 2012 and 2014 and the average reduction 25%. co tettas put the tagtsterd doms eile averages. so far we have 28 companies who have agreed to meet target and at least one of the food categories. this is notthe entire food industry, that many major food companies on here. look on e list tocat

meth tfgi in this country as well as r restaurant chain and later this year we should behaving report backs from companies that have committed the target in 2012 to see how well they've met their itvincl rvve serces. one thing we know is that there are a relatively small number of services that can be delivered by physicians or other clinicians that are inexpensive, simple, proven to be effective dere toutoin country. we have a very expensive health care system that could do far better in delivering simple proven preventive clinical services. we have an interest in impring services in new york city in t try to do this or this ject anveelonicealt record wita vendor at now deployed more than 3000

providers across the city, serving more than 3 million patients within the city o 8 millioneople. we have a irar rea rohey. fu oehar mn but the ones most important are that we have what we call clinical decision support system. this is an alert that shows up on the screen when a physician long thi about aint i saysoinhi atish d su b rt se lyersrererred as actionable so if there's an alert that says they have high blood pressu that position to click it and make recommendations about what they can do to lower it had in turn pre anmdcifrshan thpatient the record also has the ability to generate conditions specifically for patient in need of care. shout out to patients with but pressu is toohig. ob rughtc n r

eat s i ats dteosab i t control. support physicians who want to manage the entire panel rather than dealing with patients who choose to come in that day pem bphias phiast thinking more are working harder, the changes that were low in the physician's office. we get technical assistance about how they can shift the tasks in the past are themlves uroricssnc tca dmo consistently. with that electronic health record of technical assistance consistently. with that electronic health record of technical assistance we see improvements in performance as these clinical preventive services across a nuer of categories. it shows aspirin o aten cou eitom prsure ontrol and smoking cessation intervention. these sorts of improvements have

been inhmos, worth a contained organation and positions are on n evronis n niwayio ovrices. they haven't been seen in this setting. this is where the positions are for the most part in practice or slaughter practices. a very and you have it sysm. it'semarkable we aieves ange in smat rtsy ir at hh sm iunited states today. so what are the impacts been evolved these diseases in new york city? well, we have a lot of positive news here. this should show a le imaner ieads decline in stroke and 33% decline in heart disease than 16% decline in stroke. is is what is happening to our life expctancy. fast thathe s.aw d mortan2.4 years

greater than the u.s. as a whole. this is life expectancat birth. pipex it to get earth is tesiou y.d byhat happens with tifpecya 40. this would capture more the changes that occur in diseases that attempt to kill most of us in this room. as you see heresimilarly to life the other 40 relatives greater new yorkta e vnge yo tyt t ext to get earth. so let me just finish up. the disease that kill us the most are not diseaseas a resultf mass pures and tharpotiyees problems, which demand population wide solutions. those solutions i think we have demonstrated are possible, workable, not expensive and we

demonstre we can make them work in new yorkc ths soo r paid forward by the prevention of public health fund. i frequently read about people questioning the value of the prevention of public health fund, what is paidfor anyw and the soce of banks y o ndinme pulaon level that can have an enormous impact on health. we've demonstrated in new york city that if we do right we can make it work. thanks very much. [applause] anicw d'prt, i mmento u thsa e the shooter resources for the lancet that describe sin more details than that are frly high this time suse tewk tyor as somefte experience.

now we're going to turn to matt myers, president of campgn for tobacco free kids. one of the founders in 1996. that campaign has led to fight totrtb use and this had a lot more success than almost anyone had predict it. he has won major awards in the american cancer society, harvard public schoo eld and has a report tus fm t fnt s apig ttanu uc joining. >> it is a delight to be able to talk about tobacco. there's four points and going to want to make about toacco. whwedetr wow toedsasan that we have real-life examples to prove it. a second, we are able to objectively document the progress made over the last 15 years in a way that is both sit if you tma

ireaalet sh er we havactually taken the recommended actions we can prove that we've saved lives, reduce health care costs and done in a way to document a bully cost effecti. bry ceo spcific measures that are the topiof a good deal of conversation these days and are relevant that we been able toease out their impacindependent from other actions. first, let me talk about h ctt dokn ho dutb s an it's not just anecdotal evidence. this has been studied at the cdc, surgeon general, institute of medicine and other credible entities. thisie ra ha e arecifi rty i tan actions measured on this side, we will see a reduction in

tobacco use. second, i think it is important exrdiny ossch that we hav e anatkn e geate in bout. let me give you two quick snapshots, probably not coincidentally during expect her to time the organization has been in existence, but an importantsst wh adso.o oer sm in that number was rising, not falling. the total tax on an average pack of carettes was only 57 cents. megful proiomrsoved nse s eond smoke does the federal government of a deletion whatsoever of tobacco products. fast-forward to todaynd you see a very different picture. you see smoking ratao

ulnd19d in it esoly equally important if you compare the 36.7% to smoking rates among kids today its 18.1%. at is a public health success sty that verfew ople al out rs s how this happened however, take a quick look at the following data. average price for pack of cigarettes in the unitd states -- tax on a pack of cigarettes today is over $1.50. t sttr o cohee ec ast smoke-free -- against secondhand smoke that tom talked about that new york is done. today virtually every state provided some form of funding for tobacc pesionprms fhect ies ll that tonighte enacted legislation to give the food and drug administration comprehensive authority over

tobacco products. wh does it produce clicks you can e the lines aongs irac. gdls,thedrop is measurable, but not as dramatic. th these two sides, as so otis in the ast five yearhas slowed dramaticallif the on 0 st has tak a more aggressive action along the lines of what's been recommended by the cdc, they have seen in the last five years to clients in adus in youth smoking and excess of 20%. wog hee nll y s nl doing that and where we cntinue to do that we continueto see meaningful and measure progress. how does that translate into issues people really care about? issoinatve iman ta a

havbeenble to study and evaluate as a result of the adoption of these policies around the country, we now have 7.8 fewer kids who have started smoking. 1million fewer adults who use oacoatthtrat into? that translates into over 5 million fewer american who will die prematurely from a tobacco mutated disease nd wa thfe oosbionr individuals in health care savings. ..

>> we have seen an erosion.

er apona tiipfo bacco programs and success there is cause for concern and no longer do would have the greates effect moving to sus ny peoplek about, i, the benefits of tobacco cessation coverage to a wider population? massachusetts provide a comprehensive cessation services for a there was a

decline of smoking with t mecaid population. dric elne by that population of heart attacks. they have now documented in every dollar the state spdstsvoer3. another area that gets attention whe it is the value of mass meia we have documented of a densea suof trcagn wa been independently evaluated.

misspending that reduces the back usersbvr 300,000 you don't have to look at a single example. people asdieea nna,asto ss ipndri every state can document eight -- documentter b use. the cdc we and the three months mass media end campaign from thprevention fund. 24 states more than double of calls to the quitlnpraty 000

americans making a concrete attempt. 50,000 could successfully quit en hh ca sgs rt x $7 million. important point*. tobacco control programs reducing use are cost-effective. calirnia and washington. e eun pam th t recent study has they of approximately $86 billion of direct health care cost.

with the duration of the program. waingtsta afa yebon a savings of $5 for every dollar spent. not only direct programs u es about in new york city. protection against second-hand smoke. ou reduce exposure to secondhand smoke almost an immediate and the dollar

save >> otlbuos effectiveness, if you are on and the congressional staff staff, one area lot of memb r cel concerned. it is one thing to show savings but then another that has legislation to have the cbo score it saving money or not. we're very pleased someone

to address that question directly. aeth asit re fea tintand long term analysis. her multiple degrees from harvard her biographical sketch is in your materiala spia dbvet clinton health care refo house cbo or -- cbo scores is a topic we hear a lot about. the doct willexpla cb

released ajsd i ll talk about that at the end. i will start with general thoughts how we think with the federal budget.

the first issue, tere ar abcoep hnng with any type of health care prevention or treatment, one needs to kf the ef th cf care and health care spending. people also want to think about with the return n investment and is st im w ispl e.

oin fe ct tan tite how does this affect spending and revenues? when we think of budgetary impacts coma etn ine t s what are the baselines? not to a point* in time concept. what'd to read thien will have been over the next 10 years with the absence of any change of law? spending, ris, outcomes,

a nd drsth or you hear about new york and others but what would the other states to over 10 years to affectwat diilb? and will have a marginal effect with current law. then it what will happen to heth, atik th behavioral response. at enthehr f emerorr cahal -- employers, estates, schools, and the response to

the policy will helpto affect outcomes.ene hi a enng and more than just medicare/medicaid, social secuty, s,ads ree effects in changes of productivty. and what is important to us ttrh heive could dat.

eusdo analysis is critical. we welcome anything you can share that will throwliht on policiesonns sweas. with preventions, wafting get the question ho reduce score th? it is a yid of different types of policies. wen about them in broad categories. those that have different baselines and response issues. we are also asked about regulations to limit risk

behavior, and 0.8 blood quone t personal financial incentives insurance premiums, cash partipat, an xse they xe hh . cigarette tax, tax, etc. my colleagues deided it was time to look at the issues comprehensively. peop iwould take.w many e e ading ars he

amg ar questions. the goal of the polcy locate athe budgy ea ftel excise tax of $0.50 which was indexed for inflation. at we wanted tofus on thal etsor taxi fat revenues would be affected. we looked at the tenure window and longer. which is unusual for the cbo

bueosath. en you should think about the population over time. soe took that challenge. th it mpn that the decisions are not driven by cbo estimates. they take many other things to aount gonvent? ess abt throlef ma aiswhth dgy erjune on

of their policies have different outcome this. badmh know, and we have a lot of of information. e ple rat seh oabtter analysis. if e look at that approach with policy intervention with the increase of the tobacco tax, the implications for production of smoking, then assess how that reduction will affect

health and how does hat ge at n capita, mortality, and, and labr markets. when we have done all of cegt to what happens to federal health care programs, retirement programs andvnu i cannothzew h rkt tp* somhing about the revenue effects. starting out with mortality

thrs y.ty, we indsi the increase of the adult population and that bigger ths mot tand older. estimates that longevity comes in in the 65 and over population. then looking at health care spending and adultaffected by the of policy. who either quit smoking as a

sultothnen evta. it take so long time for the efcts to work out. mongio to introduce th it's a reflex two factors. quit a long period before people quit smoking has the healthstatus of people like them never smoked. bit s fyoh to never start smoking and gradually get to more cohorts to have never smoked. that is why it is delayed overtime.

t derive from longevity and health care spending, if ioe ieo lower per capita health care spending. s the fax of greater longevity, you will see initially the federal outlay is lower. then around 2025 iis a great health otome

obviously i should say right now all of these are highly uncertain gien the dibu.er ion that e ve coming back to a shorr time period. indus, thee f o first 20 years and the estimates were done with the medicaid and exchange baseline. those decline throughout the period.

production f low birth weight. onhv ge effect. you can see the outlay declined. looking at medicare, initiallys ontya yen, medicare startto rise. with social scity, of the total defect you cn see around 2025 out why is it rises up tthat period. isthhe-red

feofen not the excise tax. the first-line represents a switchfrm taxopnson health-insurance premiums are lower and employers spend less on isurance workers etore compsawi a people nhe labor force longer ad the changes of labour earnings per capita because they are more productive. improvements riotous but we talk about very small amounts. we normalize by looking at

ggp and how ey eaet sof emy they are extremely small. if we look at the fax, not anl, you can see the fax and out her, and the reuect on o latece hheltaxrt ine ciat t dt . wiaxen come with

the deficit declines throughout the wholperiod. the fax are extremely small. ers al enng would be relatively small. lower in the second decade in been spending would rise with longevityf fax -- effects and so it ulod o in the deficit for about five decades. >> thank you very much. lee nse]

panelist would like to raise a question. you should feel free to do so. co rdo re mcrophones to es. u n write it on the green card to be brought forward. and to focus onsomething re oventh talked about w pe reis called cost-effective with the millions?

>> that is different from cost savings. not all prevention is the cost savigs ner ant. di.5 trilln dollars per year. we could avert many cost by investing in intervention. erossa intervention and, a community water fluoridation a great example. you invest in delivering of the mechanics use a $38 of treatment for dental care averted because of bad.